Go On Canada!

If the country over the Northern Border of the United States does come out in favour of equalising it’s marriage laws is this going to bother the US?
Canada may well legalise gay marriage.

I am wondering if anyone else is seeing disquieting allusions to the HandMaidens Tale in some of the American President’s posturing. Or maybe I am doing what I do best and seeing cycles and parralells and patterns in everything.

Why do church groups seem to see themselves as natural enemies of gay marriage? How do gay couples threaten them exactly? Because they certainly seem to see themselves as threatened judging by the language used. I thought Christianity was all about love, Jesus certainly seemed to have a lot to say on the subject, depending on how truthful a depiction of events the gospels are. (And gospel means truth! Ha!) Or is it that bizarre notion that seems to affect some straight people from time to time, the notion that ‘we’ all fancy ‘them’ in the way that ‘they’ would find most uncomfortable and not only that but that ‘we’ are actively trying to turn them to our way of thinking…yeah coz I chose to be bisexual and I chose to be outed just before my GCSEs. That was exactly the way I planned my life to go.
When it comes down to it all is it about children? Go forth and multiply not being so easy if you have couples not designed to produce children? And of course people being so up their arses about gay couples adopting. Yes we are a plague with our ‘alternate lifestyles’ aren’t we. Gods that phrase makes it sound like we’re all over this fence and CHOOSING.

Marriage might scare the fuck out of me and seem like another nail in the coffin of freedom and of the ability to live, but if you’re going to be wierd and say that some lovers can and some lovers can’t then thats just plain unfair. And if you’re going to limit numbers I’m also going to throw an adolescent style strop…but first things first.

Well come on Canada, come on make the first step. We can be a world of freedom whatever the land of the owned says.

24 thoughts on “Go On Canada!

  1. I am wondering if anyone else is seeing disquieting allusions to the HandMaidens Tale in some of the American President’s posturing.

    No, you’re not the only one. I re-read it recently, and parts of it kept jumping out at me with flashing warning signs…

  2. canada = heaven. I have said this before. Light on the water, all souls pass. Into the west.

    Just remember; the Christian Right is neither. Anyhue have to go.

  3. Re: Handmaid’s Tale

    I can see what you’re getting at. It may take a while, but American certainly smacks of Gilead.
    I wonder if fundamentalist Muslim communities could too, though?

  4. Well i’m holding out for him to denounce quakers as a vile religion lol

    an now for some possible answers to why some religous groups are like they are,

    "Why do church groups seem to see themselves as natural enemies of gay marriage?" in the bible unnatural sex is mentioned several times,and is a crime punishable by death, Unnatural sex techically includes bj and anal in heterosexual relationships… so in other words religous groups have become a lot more tolerant (maybe due to the law)

    the bible is all about love, but is also a fact that no sin can be tolerated, and that is why repentance comes in. and with repentance is concerned, the first step is to stop the sin you are doing, so gay marriage kinda stuffs up that.

    another factor in why people can be so against gays,

    Is that if you didn’t choose to be gay, then you where made incorrectly, meaning god isn’t perfect… not many christians will tolerate that idea.

    these are just suggestions, and not my paticular view,

    I personally think everyone should make the best job of what they get, so if gay is a sin, don’t mean they necessarily are worse then any other person, cos no-one is perfect.

    fundamentalist Muslim communities would generally depend on the communities, alot like christian communities and the death penalty.

  5. the bible is all about love, but is also a fact that no sin can be tolerated,

    funny, I thought it was about agape and forgiveness

  6. I think the Bible also emphasises dealing with your own sins before starting on the rest of the world, logs, motes, casting the first stone et al

  7. firstly, there are over 250 verions of the bible in main circulation and many more outside of this, and even comparisons between various editions of the same version can show incorrections, so depending on the particular bible, it can have a load of meanings. similar to how techniques to learn astral projection have a similar end result, tho can be radically different, ie egg vs skeletal

    but one example of what the bible is about can be the story of the adultrous, the penalty was death, but jesus prevented her death.. "let he that is without sin, let him throw the first stone"
    and then told her to " go and sin no more" when thanked for stopping it. many people, even some christians believe jesus forgave her, but did he? he stopped her being stoned to death, but then all he says is don’t do again. due to the often repeated, nothing sinful can enter heaven remarks.

    "If your God is perfect and human beings are all created by him then that means that he created bisexuals, homosexuals, people who get off on blowjobs and anal sex, etc.etc. So we’re all ok."

    we where all created given strengths and weaknesses, and given free agency, which means we can choose. an example of this would be choosing to smash up a drug dealers new porsh, the choice is yours, and so are the consiquences.

    as for the bible being perfect, many christians probably do think so, even the bits that disagree, probably adds a lot to their frustration lol. i believe nothing on this earth can ever be perfect, especially thoses touched by mankind.

  8. Ok you got me curious now. If nothing sinful can enter heaven and nothing on this earth is perfect then does everyone go to hell according to you world view? (Or purgatory, but thats a Catholic thing isn’t it?)

  9. Bible, of course, is derived from the term for ‘library’ because like a library it contains many books, some of which honestly have no business being placed together.

    Two books, for example, are pretty much wholly human-writ; laws written for their time about, well, keeping the tribe alive at that time. (Don’t eat pork, don’t waste time caring for people who have sight problems, etc) These were given in the word of God as the best way for a theocratic state to get people to do what they damn well need to.

    I believe this factoid’s well acknowledged by most theologians these days.

    But there’s other ‘this book doesn’t really fit’ moments.

    The contradictions, for example; the Bible was – again, this is acknowledged by all churches except a few of the more, ah, loony fringe – written at different times with political purpose in mind from the start.

    Note ‘acknowledged’. They, by and large, don’t say this in the middle of their sermons. But there’s a lot of intelligent folk bound up in this, and they’ve thought about it.

    A great many of the contradictions in the Bible ultimately come from this, and it strikes me that the greatest thing a Christian can do is look at each command through those teachings of Jesus that actually provide an ethical framework – which should not change but rather grow – instead of through a political framework – which will be changed in a generation.

    Certain tenets then will fall away.

    Any sensible Christian should by rights have done this with homosexuality; it’s a terrible thing to contemplate, but all those centuries of gay persecution may ultimately come down to one early church leader discrediting a rival who happened to like the fellers. In essence, then, it’s those who can’t do this who have the trouble, who cause the trouble, and who are the idiots.

    I THINK here I’ve said what I meant to, and not actually attacked Christianity but rather people like the Christian Right, who don’t quite seem to have gotten the hang of the whole Christian thing. If I’ve offended a Christian here, or a homosexual, or for that matter left-handed redhead marmots, I apologise.

  10. Oh, and in response to Mish’s last question – no. The pure and incorruptible spirit remains while corruptible flesh is seared away by the cleansing light of Heaven.

    Of course, that notion leads to a lot of dodgy ideas about fleshly things such as sex being ‘bad’, so… yeah.

  11. "When it comes down to it all is it about children?"

    Actually, YES!. Kimber and I went to see my local priest to enquire about having a church wedding. One of the first questions he asked was "do you want children?" i asked him why and he replied that if we said we didn’t want children we couldn’t be married in a church as it would be seen as a purely selfish union and not a "proper" marriage. Needless to say we are NOT having a church wedding

  12. Now obviously I’m not a Christian but ok. If your God is perfect and human beings are all created by him then that means that he created bisexuals, homosexuals, people who get off on blowjobs and anal sex, etc.etc. So we’re all ok. Um but the Bible was written by imperfect humans, filtering the words of God as t’were, so couldn’t they have got bits of it wrong? I mean like Mohammad and the Santanic Verses? Or does that just devalue the Bible?

  13. Is there really something inherantly selfless about the desire to have children? I’m sure in some instances that desire can be seen as quite selfish!
    I freely admit here that my own desire not to have children is a deeply selfish and self-absorbed little thing.

  14. VHEMT would claim not having children is a good thing.

    And they stuck the T on the end so they could pronounce it ‘vehement’, so you know they’re serious.

  15. Gilead was set up as an American fundamentalist Christian nation, with Nazism thrown into the mix.

    The US is an American nation with a strong Christian influence, and a fundamentalist Christian president.

    Even Bush isn’t as far gone to the right as Gilead. That’s not to say that there’s no risk of the country ever ending up as a ‘moderate’ Gilead-style nation. America is too diverse, socially, ethnically, spiritually and politically, to slip into Fourth Reich mode.

    It’s important that Canada does pass this legislation. The morale boost to liberals within the US will be enormous, and when Americans start to notice that Canada hasn’t become Sodom and Gomorrah, it might start enlightening attitudes there.

  16. Mish: but the Bible was written by imperfect humans, filtering the words of God as t’were, so couldn’t they have got bits of it wrong?

    Yeah, kind of an obvious point that I’ve raised before now, but the point is that the Bible was ‘divinely inspired’, which means, as far as I can gather, that the words on the page are exactly what God intended to be there.

    It was as if he was dictating it, rather than telling someone a story and then sending them away to write it down.

    A kind of dodgy idea, once you get the various translations and mistranslations in there, but that’s where faith comes into the mix. Or faith and common sense, depending on which way your beliefs go.

  17. "Ok you got me curious now. If nothing sinful can enter heaven and nothing on this earth is perfect then does everyone go to hell according to you world view? (Or purgatory, but thats a Catholic thing isn’t it?)"

    the paticular belief i have is as follows, god is a god of justic, but also a god of love.

    so god can’t break his law by allowing inperfect beings (sinners) into heaven.

    but jesus died for our sins, so anyone that believes in him he will take the sin’s from.

    therefore very few people will truely go to hell (we call it outer darkness) because when you die and meet Jesus, only the most warped person willn’t be able to say "I believe".

    then you will be judged according to you actions while alive, and they will be rewarded according to the situation and merits. a person that knows something is a sin (member of my church) will have a greater penalty for the sin then someone that didn’t. but at the same time someone that knows the sin can avoid and stop it, and also know what they need to do (commandments) to get greater rewards.

    the above is a highly condensed and simplistic overview, we have several books and hours of lessons on the subject.

    "Certain tenets then will fall away"

    so are you saying a religion needs to change its core beliefs to keep follows interested?

    so then it would follow that a religion’s core beliefs are irrelievent, and therefore any religion that does change its core beliefs is worthless due to the lack of any true belief’s… or that The Being(s) worshiped where insane or indecisive.

    daemonic, what faith is the priest?
    cos as far as i’m aware, the need for children to be produced is not mentioned in the marriage oath, which is really what a marriage is, a declaration of love.

  18. As a purely picky point, ‘gospel’ actually originally meant ‘good news’, not truth. I’m not getting into the rest of the debate at this stage though 🙂

    p.s. hello Mish! I don’t read this often, but hi! Miss you!

  19. I was just thinking of you Harry! And then I read your comment; I miss you too, like anything! But The Jellicle keeps me updated and I read your stuff on the Guild…when you post!

    Thanks for correcting me about the word gospel though!

  20. I’ve tried to talk to you a few times lately on msn, but it doesn’t work very well from the office (yes I have an office now!!) so bah. I’ll keep trying though!
    And yes, you’re right, I don’t post work to the guild as often as I should, point taken… 😉
    Stay groovy!
    HP 🙂

  21. Well talk more!!! And tell me about the office and the PhD and everything! Haven’t seen you at all on MSN!
    (AND POST TO THE GUILD!)

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