Where’d This Anger Come From Then?

So, I don’t think I’ve ever walked out of a Pagan Society talk before. But I did tonight, this doesn’t reflect on the quality of the talk because it was actually rather good, but more on the fact that I could feel myself becoming more and more of a twat and figured that El Presidente didn’t deserve it.

Western Religious Philosophy seems to explain a lot of why Dawkins dismisses paganism. But more on that, it didn’t help that we spent some time dwelling on the basic hypocrisies of the Christian faith. If you’re going to believe in an omni-everything God then you can’t turn round and decide that you know better than him which would seem to me to be the basis for most of the theological debates within Christianity, either admit that he doesn’t exist or admit that you don’t know better than him but would you bloody well make your minds up?

Could really do with having American Dan here at this point, such a refreshing Christian. (This is not to do down the rest of my Christian mates, just I find his Christianity refreshing).

My next point is that Paganism is not an excuse to turn your back on science, ooh lets mystify everything within obscurity and explain and know nothing…which seems to be what Christopher? Christian? Cleary thinks. To be honest I can imagine that theres a fair few pagans who subscribe to the science is bad bracket. I just bubble up under that. I swear if the gods and wights and all the rest of the bloody kami in the world had left me alone I’d be a humanist. Can’t stand fucking Dawkins for a lot of things but Unweaving the Rainbow does at least point out that awe and knowledge can actually go hand in hand… oooh big surprise there.

What is with this modern day desire to split the two, they are not distinct things, science at it’s base has a wonder for the natural world, a wonder which the kami in it add to but they aren’t opposed to each other, religion and science, they really do go hand in hand. The world is beautiful and full of mystery around us and I believe that it would be still even if I could explain the existence of all the kami in the beautiful mountain. I can give you a fairly good precis of the rain cycle this doesn’t stop me from dancing in it. Why do people persist in believing that understanding somehow ends a blissful ignorance? Ignorance can be happy or unhappy but finding out how things work is always happy, adding to your knowledge, how does this make things unhappy? How does this detract from the world around us?

Why dear gods why can’t people reconcile this artificial split between science and religion and why can’t Christians embrace their faith publicly and whole-heartedly.

Gragh! I wish I knew where this real annoyance and anger was coming from, it’s completely unnecessary. Better go and apologise to people now, I can hear PS ending…

5 thoughts on “Where’d This Anger Come From Then?

  1. Not sure where you get the idea that Christians think they know better than God. A lot of Christians think they know what God wants or intends, which is perhaps just as big a problem, and (probably) wrong into the bargain.

  2. Understanding why something happens doesn’t change the fact that it actually happening can be a miracle.

    For what it’s worth, I agree with your points behind this piece.

    Tea soon?

  3. Hrm…. when it comes to Christianity, I don’t think Christians, as a general rule, believe they know better than Him/Her/It. That would rather defeat the point.

    In my experience of such things, Christian debates are more the spectrum (and limited ability) of human interpretation and application of the established Word Of God to the lives they lead.
    Viewpoints are shot down not because one Christian believes God to be wrong, but rather they believe their philosophical/religious opponent is.
    Same as just about any Religion.

    #shrugs a bit#

    Still, I’ll be interested to read your extended rant.

  4. A good rant, hope you feel cleansed?

    I think it’s worth remembering that the Christian theologians and the philosophers of religion whose ideas we were exploring last night represent a small and particular group of Christians and of people interested in religion.

    Moreover, whether or not philosophy allows anyone to say anything meaningful about religion is open to debate.

    Interestingly, whilst philosophy is a relative latecomer to the scene (c.5th century BCE?), pagan philosophers gave the generally poorly educated apologists for Christianity a good intellectual kicking in its early days (before the Emperors took on Christianity as a handy state-sponsored tool to help control the populace), and (aside from their occasionally violent responses [remember Hypatia!]), I think they’ve been on shaky foundations ever since. Nice cathedrals though!

    In other news, when you are calm perhaps you might want to read what Collin Cleary actually wrote?

  5. My reactions every time I see Sylvas do something I haven’t seen him do before – even wearing his own flayed skin, the little weirdo – are based around a sense of awe at how nature has created such an animal.

    The time he efficiently attacked and killed and consumed a mouse I was dangling in by its tail, for example. He’d never done that, never seen it done, in his life, yet he did it correctly, purely on instinct.

    On certain Christians thinking they’re more knowledgeable than God? Yeah, it’s more like other people have mentioned: they think they’re more knowledgeable than other Christians, or unbelievers. The same applies to other faiths equally. It’s not about religion, it’s about people.

    Some people are arrogant assholes.

    (I’m reminded of a conversation I had with Becky on Tuesday, where she commented that apparently Buddha once said that if science ever contradicted one of his teachings, then *shrug* "I guess I was wrong, wasn’t I?"

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